NASH RANCH ROAD ASSOCIATION

Board Meeting –  Saturday July 9, 2016.

Spinardi residence, Big Meadow Road.

Minutes by Bruce Wicinas, from an audio recording.

Convened 9:04.  Francois Christen, Tom Spinardi, Bruce Wicinas

Francois:  I created this spreadsheet (explains the budget by zone scheme) The budget is a target based on Paul’s work. We would not exactly hit the budget each year. But over five years we can see if the average is where we expect.  Tom and I drove the road, and we computed expenses at quite a bit over our income – about $41,000.  7:02

Tom: We drove with Steve as well.

Francois: We cut stuff out because it was over this year’s budget. We could throw the over-budget stuff into next year.

I got Joy to put in these budget codes. When Tom gets a bill we’ll code it. When Joy puts it into Quickbooks it will refer to the zone budget.

Tom:  I’ll code the bills. This upper road overhead is $3500?

Francois: And the lower road is $3000.

Tom: Really? $6500? Oh, that’s mostly insurance?

That wasn’t in my budget, so that puts us farther over.

Francois: I’d like to take people through this at the annual meeting.

Bruce: You want to keep it fairly cursory, considering attention span on a hot afternoon.

Bruce: If you did this much (~$23,000) it would be more work than we’ve ever done in a year except in response to emergencies.

Francois: We promised we would grade Lang’s road but there are now saplings growing there. We have to clear them.

Tom: I think they could be pushed with the grader.

Francois: I was going to see if I can get some volunteers at the annual meeting.

Tom: Don says he thinks the fire department will chip, if we just cut and pile the brush.

Francois: You have to apply for a grant to do it. The fire chief is presently overwhelmed, and doesn’t have time.

Tom: Everybody is driving faster now. The speed of traffic is making Bonnie worried about the kids walking on the road.

 

Tom: Regarding Little Mill Creek – Clouston asked Steve to grade and rock it as his expense. Steve graded and ditched the whole road. I propose we pay for the grading – 8 hours, total $750. If we do that we’ll still be a little below the budget. I’m going to talk to all three of the residents and propose Adam, Clouston and Mike share the cost of the rock.  Maybe we can pay for a little of the rock and still be within budget.

Francois: Regarding Handley and Glous – we haven’t billed them this year. They’re in the same situation. Judy Nelson says they should pay!

Tom: Handley’s access is through the ridge road.

Bruce: What’s the amount discussed?  22:30

Francois: I think we should send them a bill of some sort. Schock refused to pay Handley’s bill for last year. I think we should collect that.

Tom: I say, let it go. They aren’t using the road. We inform them, “if you ever use the road, then you have to honor your un-paid past bill.”

(We pause to eat some cake. Discussion continues.)

Tom: I don’t want to deal with Randy. The two of them paid very much in the past. I just want it to go away.

Bruce: Just fighting about last year seems pointless.

Francois: I’ll draft a letter saying we won’t charge them. But if they start using the road, we’ll charge them.

Tom: That’s cool.

Bruce: Yes.

(We peruse the “aging” list)

Tom: How to proceed on people who do not pay.

Francois: Joy could send out a second notice.

Bruce: She already has. I got a second notice.

Francois: Have you paid your bill?

Bruce: As I’ve said before, the timing of our billing could not be much worse. It’s in the run-up to April 15 on which huge tax-related payments are due – property tax installment 2, Internal Revenue, self-employment withholding, mandatory SEP-IRA adjustments, kid’s tuition payments, etc.

Francois: You can wait.

Bruce: So I do! I paid recently. 33:35

Tom: It’s not like we need the money right now. Most people are going to pay.

Bruce: Although there was sticker shock when I got the bill. My dues are eye-popping high now. About $120 more.

(prolonged grumbling about fees.)

Tom: You are the lowest paying person on the upper road.

Bruce: But look at my use. I drive one mile of the upper road which is shared by everybody. I won’t see any improvement by the increase.

Tom: A lot of people are complaining. It’s not that much money, I don’t think.

Bruce: If you read my Sept 27 minutes which I finally typed, the mantra repeated over and over was “just increasing everyone by a fraction is not fair.”  That’s exactly what you guys then did, and by much more than we ever before dreamed.  Anyway…  There’s valuable, clean thinking in Paul’s proposal. 35:10

Francois: The problem was, if we had actually hit people like Bill Seekins with that huge increase…

Bruce: We talked about that; it’s why the meeting was 2 ½ hours long.

Francois: I’m sorry you didn’t get invited; actually you did get invited….

(Prolonged argument: Bruce denying he got “the e-mail;” recollection by others about what happened regarding “the e-mail.”)

Tom: I don’t know if you being there would have made a difference.

Bruce:  It might have changed a lot. First of all there would have been minutes. Second, I would have urged, “don’t decide this right now.”

Francois: Well, we put a lot of work into this and we just needed to get it done. 37:33.

Bruce: But you guys completely changed direction from what we had steadily discussed. You basically did a 180. Without minutes, without an agenda, without any notice of a huge decision. It’s totally out of order.  The most important thing the board has decided in ten years, and you did it without an agenda, on the spot. 38:18

Tom: Remember me coming up to you after the meeting and asking if you were alright with this, and you said “I guess I’m O.K. with it.”

Bruce:  You had decided. It was already a mostly cooked decision.

Francois: The fact of the matter is, there were three of us out of five.

Bruce: Yes, an “impromptu forum,” a new concept in Board decision-making.

Tom: You said “O.K”…

Bruce: You give me 30 seconds to consider something that had already happened.

Tom: Are you angry because you’re paying more, or because we did not go with the plan?

Francois: Are you mad because you didn’t get your way?

Bruce: I’m angry because it’s terrible process. What’s the point of minutes, of agendas, of careful decision-making? Where’s the whole process John Wild set up? It was absent.

Francois: I put 50 hours into this. It was time to make a decision.

Bruce: Raising fees across the board 45%? The idea was totally unheard of. If you think this [decision-making] is legitimate, you are in denial. You have to admit it was totally out order. This neutralizes due process. 40:00

Tom: You knew about the meeting. We have the e-mail.

Bruce: SHOW ME THE E-MAIL.

Tom: You were notified.

Bruce: Yes, that you having house meetings to discuss Paul’s proposal. We talked in September about talking with Buonanno.

(argument continues on)  41:50

Francois: If you had been at the meeting you would have seen there was massive resistance.

Bruce: Yes, so you see what happened. All the people who Paul argued should be paying more have in effect reduced their proportional burden, increasing the proportional burden on people like me (who use a very small fraction of the most heavily shared portion of the upper road.) 42:48

Bruce: Let’s just stop. I was not going to talk about this. But when you start saying I knew about this I can’t say nothing.  45:24

Francois, Tom: People back there were upset. They’re still upset.

Bruce: Yes, so now people like me are now paying unfairly.

Francois: I spent $9000 that should have been paid by the road association. This year I spent $750 extra.

Bruce: Under Paul’s regime that would not have been necessary. Your example exemplifies the whole idea. Over 10 years the Big Meadow work would have been executed requiring no extra money from you.

Tom: How can we make peace with you.

Bruce: You can’t. Just don’t bring it up. 47:36

Francois, Tom: (looking over the list of late payers) We need to send them a letter. 48:35

Bruce: You don’t need to send a letter. Just ask “why haven’t you paid?”

Tom: I’ll call them.

Tom: We go to these people. If they don’t pay we put a lien on their property.

Francois: I need those archive boxes from you because John wants to refer to old cases which are in there. Maybe I’ll just drive down after this meeting and get them.

Bruce: I have scanned nearly everything in them.

Francois: No, I want the boxes.

Bruce: You can have them. I want to first make sure I’ve scanned everything that may be of use.
Francois:  You’re leaving the board. I want the boxes.  50:15

Tom: You’re not leaving the board. You’re staying on the board.

Bruce: He’s trying to keep me on the board.

Bruce: I have scanned nearly everything.

Tom: How long will it take you to scan?

Bruce: About a week.

Francois: I would like the originals.

Bruce: You can have them. I want to scan them first. In case something happens to the paper, we’ll have an electronic copy. 50:32

Bruce: If you checked the website…

Francois: The unnavigable website.

Bruce: (pauses for composure) It was originally laid out by Don; it’s a standard navigational scheme.

Bruce: The full text of the Gimblett appeal – names redacted – is on the web. It’s been there for four years. It’s entitled “Founding Documents Part 1 and Part 2.” It contains John Wild’s best statement of the rationale for the road association billing.  51:40

Francois: To some people we must send nasty letters.

(Discussion about the slow payers.)

Tom: Let’s make a few calls. (discussion about who calls who.)

Tom: You, Bruce, are the only one that paid for dust-off last year.

Bruce: WHAT??!!

Tom: Nobody got bills. Nancy caught it. Everybody is going to pay. Everybody thought they had paid. 57:45

Bruce: She actually reads the figures. Nobody else does.

Tom: She does. It’s a help. 58:50

Francois: John Wild says, if you don’t act on your threats then you’ll be ignored.

Francois: I drafted some letters – to Hecht and to Holibaugh. (drafts had been e-mailed prior. Tom and Bruce review the copies.)

Bruce: I read these yesterday. Each is sort of a special case.

Francois: I think we need to take these two to court.

Tom: Hecht is questioning the insurance.

Bruce: It would be good to have the insurance reviewed by an export.

Tom: My friend reviewed it.

Francois: The only insurance we need is liability. It’s in the by-laws. If somebody goes off the road…

Bruce: Are we obliged to put up barriers?!

Francois: No, but if we have insurance we’re protected against getting sued.

Bruce: It’s the 50-50 split he’s questioning. Should we look at that? It probably hasn’t been reconsidered in 20 years.

Francois: I’ll just put a sentence in the letter about the division between upper and lower.

Bruce: With both these two guys, has anybody just talked to them?

Tom: I’m not talking to Hecht. Paul can talk to him.

Francois: By the way, the Clow ridge people are not invited to our annual meeting and they’re not allowed to vote.

Bruce: These are both ornery guys. You’re throwing down the gauntlet. You’re likely to have to take them to court.

Francois: Holibaugh was taken to court by John Wild.

Tom: We should take Hecht to court.

Tom: That would be good for you, Bruce.

Bruce: Yeah, who thought of sending out the bills in sync with the lead-up to April 15. So the bills would go out July 1 instead of January?

Francois: No, no, no, no, the bills still go out in January.  It’s just that accounting starts in July 1. 1:09:33

Bruce: Then, what’s the point?

Francois: It’s standard accounting stuff.

Tom: The money comes in in Jan, and we don’t use it until July. 

Francois: It’s not complicated.  1:10:55

Bruce: So it’s technical, with no consequence at all.

Francois: All in favor?

Bruce: If it’s helpful. So one year has 18 months?

Tom: We better run this past Paul. So you’ll call Paul, right?  1:12:02

Francois: I read your notes. These aren’t minutes. They’re a transcript. Some things are out of date. For example, it says “we’re not going to rock Gimblett’s road.” We decided to, so it needs editorial notes.

Bruce: It’s a discussion; they weren’t decisions.

Tom: Just post and see if anyone has a question. I don’t know who reads them.

Bruce: When I received those archive boxes they were a chaotic heap. I spend maybe 40 hours curating them. I scanned everything I thought would ever be worth remembering. The minutes going back to 2000 are all on the web.

Francois: These (referring to the 9/27/2015 draft) do not include an agenda. It would be better if you just list the issue and what was decided.

Bruce: That’s close to how I used to do the minutes, when there was consensus on the board. These days I’ve grown much more transciptive. I agree they should be combed through. I see them as tools for investigating how things happened. 1:14:28

Francois: You have recorded everything everyone said.

Tom: You have posted all minutes up to 2012 on the web?

Tom: Has anyone ever called to ask about minutes?

Bruce: Has anyone even acknowledged there is a website? In fact I don’t know how many times I have had to tell people, “the bylaws are on the website.”

Tom: You’re missing my point. Let’s assume everybody’s read it.

Bruce: I’m sure nobody has read it – except Nancy Mayer.

Francois: She said the other day, there are no recent minutes.

Bruce: You guys worry so much about posting things. But no one other than Nancy Mayer ever reads anything. 1:16:16

Francois: I think it would be helpful if you put on the agenda and summarized what we decided, in addition to any transcript.

Bruce: Uhhh…

Tom: Just tell how the board voted.

Francois: I would like you to annotate it and put agendas.

Tom: I usually type up the agendas.

Bruce: Note that these bold headings coincide with the agenda.

Francois: That’s a lot of work, Bruce.

Bruce: I don’t type everything. I omit the chit-chat. 1:18:30 Moreover, these meeting discussions skip all over. I try to put the pieces back together into a more coherent flow…  It’ll be another labor to summarize. Anyway…

Bruce: I’m going to go back over them before I post them. I will boil them down more.

Francois: If you look at the minutes that I kept, they’re concise.

Bruce: Yes, those and the minutes of Steve Bramble are all on the web.

Francois: I don’t care if it’s not active. I used to fight this at Wells Fargo all the time. Nobody reads it. People are too busy. I think it’s useful if people can find the information.

Bruce: It does require more than zero patience to find stuff. There’s a menu tree. I want to watch your frustrated effort some time. A few minutes will give me great insight.

Francois: I used to do that at Wells Fargo regarding ATM usage.

Bruce: I’ll be happy to fix the navigation if I can be informed of what’s wrong with it. It’s standard WordPress. Don set it up originally. I thought it was O.K. I’ve never received any feedback whatever except “I can’t find so-and-so.” Even regarding little cute things on which I’ve taken trouble – zero. So why spend more time on it? 1:12:01

Bruce: You can make it more active by allowing people to post. That’s what WordPress is made for.

Francois: Oh, great.

Bruce: We can make one of the sections open to public posting. WordPress will automatically e-mail the webmaster whenever anyone posts.

Francois: Who wants to do this? Life is too short.

Bruce: Have you heard of “Facebook?” 1:22

Francois: I don’t use Facebook because I don’t have the ____ time.

Bruce: 1.7 billion people find the time.  Americans spend 72 hours of each month on Facebook.

Francois: If you want to take an hour sometime I’m happy to discuss how to improve navigation.

Bruce: I’m sure that by watching you for a few minutes I can see what’s wrong. You realize, I write software for a living.  1:23:07

Francois: Do you write websites?

Bruce: No, but I have a bunch of websites. In five minutes one can see what’s the difficulty. But that doesn’t solve the problem of renewing content.

Tom: Why don’t we just ask somebody if they want to take over the website.  1:23:41

Francois: What if Roger Hecht wants do to it.

Tom: Maybe there’s a retired person…

Francois: What’s anyone going to put onto there…

Bruce: What’s on Facebook?!

Francois: Total waste of time.

Tom: You know what I heard? “Francois’s camera caught a mountain lion.” And I went over and looked at it.

Francois: You guys are in charge of coming up with something more concrete. Then we can discuss it. 1:26

Francois: Who’s up for re-election?

Bruce: Alexa and I. I was going to exit. I’ve been on the board six years.

Tom: I’d like you to stay.

Bruce: What about Alexa?

Tom: She’s unable to continue. Judy Nelson wants to get onto the board.

(Discussion about other names.)

Francois: Clouston.

Bruce: He’s too new.

Francois: I think Clouston would be good.

Tom: Why don’t we send a thing out and see who wants to do it. But how are we going to do it in time?

Francois: We have to tell them to contact a board member, and the board member puts it on the ballot and it goes out. We’ll just have to move our asses.

Bruce: But we don’t have time for two mailings before the annual meeting.

Francois: We have to call for nominees first. I’ll take care of that.

Bruce: Usually there are zero nominees. Two years ago we held the mailing until past time, waiting for you to agree because we had no one else. It was a panic.

Francois: I’ll work it out. Who nominated you? [ed note: incumbents do not need to be nominated]

Tom: Me.

Francois: So you’re on; Judy said she wanted to run. We really need people who work.

Bruce: Finding any person has been enduringly problematic.

Bruce: It’s a standard package. Invite, agenda, ballot, minutes, financials.

Francois: Ballot, or solicitation of nominees?

Bruce: You can request candidates because you won’t hear back until the annual meeting. 1:32:27

Francois: No, you give them a week to respond with nominations then you send out a ballot.

Bruce: You mean, a second mailing?

Francois: Yeah.

Francois: Who’s going to draft an agenda?

Bruce: We do it right now, but not until the end of this meeting.

Francois: We have another meeting to go over the agenda.

Bruce: We don’t have time for two meetings and two mailings. Normally you have to mail out the ballot sufficiently in advance of the meeting to receive their return.

Francois: But we have to solicit nominations.

Bruce: There won’t be any nominations. We have to twist arms to get people to agree to serve.

Tom: Let’s do it the right way. We’ll ask for nominations.

Bruce: Then when are people going to vote – at the meeting?

Francois: No, we’ll mail the ballot.

Bruce: A second mailing? It takes Joy a week’s notice to get it out.

Francois: I will help her get it out. We’ll do it right. You were complaining about process.

Tom: Then you’re going to do it?

Bruce: Why don’t you just try to identify candidates before the mailing?

Francois: Because that’s not due process. Before you were concerned about process. Now you’re happy to circumvent process.

Bruce: I have time and again solicited the whole membership: “Please somebody run for board.” Nobody ever does. 1:35:19

Francois: We can mail out this week asking for nominations.

Tom: He’s willing to do it.

Francois: And we’ll then send out the major mailing in two weeks.

Bruce: We can’t mail out something now. Joy’s not available.

Francois: I can do it.

Bruce: You’re going to mail it yourself?

Francois: Yeah.

Tom: Perfect. So  you’ll do it this week?

Francois: Yeah. Well, in the next week and a half.

Bruce: The NRRA board hung by a thread while we waiting for you to get back from the Sierra two years ago to give us an answer.

Tom: This is just a formality. He’s willing to do it.

Bruce: There’s always an “invite” - “Please come  to parcel X; bring your chair,” etc.

Tom: You want to talk the agenda right now?

Bruce: It’s mostly boilerplate.

(They sketch out the agenda.)

Tom: We need to look at the minutes from last summer to see what we said we agreed to do.

Francois: Some of the work got done; not all got done.

Bruce: It would be great to not talk about Martinez, because we have talked about it so much. What we did could just be covered under “work done.”

Tom: Work to be done.

Francois: We can talk about the fee increase.

Bruce: I suggest not bringing that up.

Francois: I want to talk about the “budget by segments” spreadsheet.

Bruce:  Yes. Tom, you’ll want to hand out your latest – “multi-year maintenance plan.”

Francois: Tom, you can talk about work upcoming.

Tom: When you talk about your budget, you talk about your “budget by segments” which I think is really powerful. Then I’ll discuss my little thing.

Francois: If you can figure out year two, we can present the two together.

Bruce: Even with this really high income there’s no culvert work planned?

Tom: I think the culverts can wait. This shows we’re taking the money and putting it into the road. I think people will really like this.

Bruce: Ever since you started showing these multi-year plans, it silenced all dissent. This is what people wanted to see.

Tom:  Big Meadow road, done; Nash Mill Road, done; Little Mill Creek, pretty much done; Scott Homestead, will be done. Moore Homestead, done.

Francois: Next year or the year after we can do culverts.

Bruce: Regarding culverts – some months ago you Tom said why don’t I get a quote from my geologist and we’d compare it to Colin’s. But to do that I need an exact description of what we’re asking so we can fairly compare to Colin’s quote.

Francois: Compare figures for what? The cost of doing the work? Or the engineering, proposal and permit?

Tom: I sent an application in to Fish and Game for that little culvert down there, even though we’re not going it.

Bruce: Which, my culvert?

Tom: No, the one on Little Mill Creek.

Bruce: But your applications doesn’t have calcs.

Tom: I don’t think you need calcs.

Bruce: To replace it?

Tom: It’s not a waterway. I don’t think you need calcs. I took a shot in the dark. Later I got a call asking to where they mail the permit? I haven’t got it though. Maybe they’re still reviewing.

Francois: Tom, Tom, I want the work to be done right. It requires a pipe that goes all the way down…

Tom: It’s done. I have it all drawn out.

Francois: How did you get the water volume?

Tom: I said we’re replacing an existing 1’ with a 2’. I have aerial pictures.

Francois: I don’t think there’s that much water there. 2’ should be fine.

Tom: It’s not a creek.

Bruce: If you have interest in getting a figure from my geologist I must know exactly what we’re asking.

Francois: There’s Flower Patch, there’s the big culvert that goes under the road just below Flower Patch. While we’re doing that we might as well get a permit for the Big Meadow culvert.

Bruce: What? The “7’ diameter” culvert on my property? We are not re-doing that. It’s fine. The geologist said it’s fine. (Francois talking over Bruce: “when it blows out…)

Francois: Your geologist is full of ____.

Bruce: What do you mean “my geologist is full of ___”? What are you talking about? Where’s your geology license?

Francois: When it blows out then you’ll have to replace it with a 7’ culvert.

Bruce: Fine. Put it in writing; I’ll sign it.

Francois: And we’ll pick your house out of Mill Creek when that happens.

Bruce: You know nothing. At least respect licensed professionals.

Francois: Well, you pick and choose the ones you want to respect.

Bruce: Colin would say the same. If you don’t want to believe my geologist – who is licensed and works for Linda Macelwee and other in the government – and wouldn’t take my money because he thinks we might be radioactive -  then ask Colin. What is the problem here?

Tom: We don’t have the money to put a 7’ culvert in. When we want to get permits to do culverts, we’ll agree on what culverts what we’re doing. 1:50:30

Francois: This one (points) is rotting out, and you’re going to have to replace it with a 7’ culvert. It has the same area that feeds into yours.

Bruce: It’s far upstream from mine so the flow is different.

Tom: At a future meeting we’ll look at this. I’m going to do everything right. It will all be done by an engineer.

Tom: The Nelsons are against this (points)

Francois: I think it’s a good idea.

Tom: I think it’s a good idea too.

Bruce: Why is Judy against it?

Tom: Doug is against it. He said, “you’ve gotta get a permit from Fish and Game to touch that.”

Francois: What you need here (points to some location) is a bunch of boulders to slow the flow. But this (points) requires a 7’

Tom: It’s amazing the size of culverts they are now requiring.

Bruce: Vented fords are in their manual.

Francois: You didn’t want a vented ford on your property. You didn’t like the dip.

Bruce: Nobody likes the dip. I can hear people cursing over there. But it’s better than a 7’ culvert. To cross that we would have to drive up.

Bruce: Two years ago when we asked for “any more questions?” people went on for another half hour.

Tom: Bruce, if you want to say something about the fees…

Bruce: Nope, not saying anything. It’s a done deal.

Francois: I’d like to take people to tour the fire exits that morning.

Bruce: That should be a separate sheet.

Francois: I’d like to get volunteers to clear out the Buonanno-Lang segment.

Tom: We need brushing on the lower road.

Bruce: Brush is an old subject. And above all we don’t want to bring that masticator in here.

Tom: I love the masticator.

Bruce: But they don’t honor the agreement, and charge way more than anticipated. How about buying an old bucket truck?

Francois: Renting is always better than buying.

Tom: I have a bucket truck, but it’s broken.

Bruce: So rent a bucket truck for a few days. Get the high stuff.

Tom: Years ago we used a bucket truck. Bob was up in the bucket. A guy was driving the truck. My daughter was helping. We went all the way to 128 and back in one 12 hour day. I got a price from A1, two years ago. They wanted $9000 just to do the lower road.

Bruce: Yes, I don’t trust them. That’s how Steve Williams busted our budget six years ago. Besides, what that masticator does to trees is really gross.

Francois: That’s something for a grant to cover.

Tom: Let’s let Don look into it.

Tom: Bruce, are you O.K. with getting together the agenda and invite?

Bruce: Sure. I’ve always done it. I have all those old docs.

Francois: I’ll prepare the call for nominations and mention that on the morning I’ll take people to three fire exits. Gimblet’s, the ridge road, and Buonannos.

Tom: A lot of people who haven’t driven all that may be interested.

Tom: Do we have chairs?

Bruce: No, people are asked to bring their own chairs.

Francois: Joy will print out some labels. I’ll throw them on envelopes.

Tom: If you need help with anything, let me know.

 

Adjourned  11:10